But once you are in a position to make the attack roll with Acid Splash, you have already finished casting the spell and you are once again threatening, assuming you're holding a melee weapon. That ally can make a single melee attack against the opponent as an immediate action. The big drawback to this is that you can't flank with ranged weapons in most cases, which is the primary situation that a rogue would get sneak attacks. A ranged weapon without finesse is suitable for sneak attack since sneak attack does not require the weapon to be both finesse and ranged, just one of finesse or ranged. If all the characters are aware of their opponents, proceed with normal rounds. Flanking still only applies to melee attacks, even if you're in a position to provide flanking. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. It’s worth noting that Touch Attacks (such as Shocking Grasp) do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity, but Ranged Touch Attacks, such as Acid Splash, do. RAI: The devs don't want it. And that definitely makes sense. This means you do not flank when making a ranged attack, even if you are simultaneously threatening with a melee attack. You only check flanking with a melee attack, which breaks those feats and breaks your sneak attack idea anyway. If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. A successful Fortitude save reduces this effect to staggered for 1 round. Digital Dungeon Master 27,792 views. The problem is that there is no flanking outside of a melee attack, despite Enfilading Fire incorrectly suggesting there is. The only reason I FAQed it is because someone else did, and I didn't want people to think I was that guy who FAQs his own posts when no one else does :p. I don't think this is necessarily a corner case. Sure - human error exists - but the whole purpose of feats is to be able to do something you cannot typically due. Flanking is broken, until it's fixed, there are options that should work and don't unless they are houseruled. Rogue (Pathfinder) Edit. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. Is the type of attack being made one that can benefit from the positions the relevant parties are in? The requirements for the condition are laid out, albeit very vaguely. But the fact that there is a "-" in the section for ranged attack modifiers for flanking, rather than a "+0" seems to clearly indicate that you cannot be considered flanking when making a ranged attack. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. I support a limited subset of Pathfinder's rules content. A full build of a Halfling Knife Master Rogue specialising in Sneak Attacks by using Trip and Teamwork feats First, let's look at Flanking itself. Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking. Darkvision (70 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only). 2.) Melee touch attacks are an explicit exception to this. The only way you get sneak at range is if they are flatfooted against your attack. ", We can also look at Enfilading Fire: And fighters or barbarians or etc. Meh. that's the second time in 24 hours i mistakenly read something from d20pfsrd as 1st party when it wasn't... BAH! That's exactly what the problem is. Sneak attack damage is applied for EVERY hit, as along as the other prerequisites are accounted for. log in or register to remove this ad . I know ranged attacks don't benefit from flanking bonus, and you don't normally threaten with a ranged weapon. 1. Combat is cyclical; everybody acts in turn in a regular cycle of rounds. It seems to me that everyone agrees that you can't get sneak attack during a ranged attack from flanking. "When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.". With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. A rogue would get sneak attack from within 30ft if: the target was denied their dexterity. And then you run out of all your uberpowerful metamagic'ed spells. There is no condition called "flanking" or "flanked". I want to play a ranged mindstalker in a bit of a pirate-theme with double pistols while debuffing them as a beguiler and getting sneak attacks in that way.. Once I realized I can just use Frigid Touch instead of Nauseating Dart to do the thing I wanted to do, I don't even really intend to try this type of trick myself. Gang Up changes the position aspect of flanking. "When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner. That comes after it has been determined that the rules are ambiguous. Allowing this particular action would open up problems such as a rogue archer with a spiked gauntlet claiming to be threatening with the gauntlet and getting bow sneak attacks on all attacks. Ranged legerdemain enhances their skill as thieves, and their ability to make sneak attacks without flanking or as part of a spell can make arcane tricksters formidable damage-dealers. From the. Either you can normally flank from range (because flanking is only positional), but the Gang Up FAQ says you cannot allow ranged attacks to benefit from what is exclusively a positional change, or flanking requires something more than just an analysis of relative positions, and you cannot flank from range because flanking actually contemplates melee combat. Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, one other teamwork feat. This also applies to ranged attacks made within 30ft. Pathfinder Kingmaker Builds: Thousand Stabs. See the Attacks of Opportunity diagram for an example of how they work . Determine which characters are aware of their opponents. That is the way that leads to madness. And that FAQ explicitly states that ranged attacks do not benefit from Gang Up, the only purpose of which is to make it easier to find a position to flank from. So why on earth would you think that if there are two ways to read a feat, and in one reading you can't do ANYTHING, while the other reading gives you a slight advantage.... that the reading where you can't do ANYTHING is the correct reading... its a very pessimistic outlook on life. You do not get sneak dice at range if they are flanked by you or anyone else, unless you have the requisite feats to threaten with a ranged weapon in melee. 3. ranged vivi will be pumping more damage than ranged fighter or ranger for sure, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the Pathfinder_Kingmaker community, Continue browsing in r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker. "can this be abused?". Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. Darkvision (70 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only). In melee Combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. There is no need to errata or FAQ as far as I can tell. 1. Actually, Enfilading Fire on denotes that someone in melee flanking a target has to have the Teamwork feat for it to work (along with the non-flanking ranged attacker), as opposed to all of the allies that are flanking it needing the feat for it to work. Roll20 uses cookies to improve your experience on our site. I think Flanking and the Flanking Bonus have a Set Subset relationship. It is possible be flanking an opponent without the opponent being flanked outside of the attack. The requirements for flanking make no mention of melee only. It makes perfect sense to me. The fact that the base FAQ question was framed in a way to assume no other special circumstances were in play, the answer to the FAQ assumed no other special circumstances were in play. The Gang Up FAQ makes this pretty explicit. Sneak attack can be used with ANY melee or ranged attack, as long as the opponent is flat footed. You ask a question, you don't have to like the answer you get, but continuing to argue doesn't change the answer. The GM Has the Final Say If you’re ever uncertain how to apply a rule, the GM decides. Ranged Sneak Attack (Ex): At 3rd level, whenever a woodland sniper makes a ranged attack against a creature within 30 feet that is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), he deals an additional 1d6 points of damage. I'll tackle the second part first. This … So you no longer threaten with the dagger while you cast the acid splash - Combatan… note this will cost you potentially 3 attack bonus. There is how we understand it, and there is what the literal interpretation is, and these are not always aligned. Pathfinder has many specific rules, but you’ll also want to keep these general guidelines in mind when playing. Edit: A 2 level dip in eldritch archer will also provide an extra attack when you get spell strike. Characters that flank are flanking. I will use the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks, which tend to be more consistent than 3.5 handbooks. However, that doesn't change how flanking works in the ordinary case because these specific abilities (like Enfilading Fire and Coordinated Shot) are clearly variations on how flanking generally works. It is about as clear as mud wrapped in tinfoil and shoved in a steel safe. For a ranged attack with a thrown melee weapon, that weapon must also be agile or finesse. Cookies enable you to enjoy certain features, social sharing functionality, and tailor message and display ads to your interests on our site and others. 1. And do you expect every DM in the world to follow this rule? master_marshmallow wrote: But you aren't flanking if you make a ranged attack, only a melee attack. Ranged attack rolls use Dexterity as their ability modifier. An opponent is flanked by characters that meet the imaginary line requirement. The only place "Flanking" is defined is as a bonus to a melee attack. It is you that assumes the first paragraph is the only way flanking can come up. 4. For more detail see this thread, and click the FAQ requests at this and this post. The idea is to do as many attacks with 2 Sai weapons in one round as possible. Any ranged attack within 30', so long as it meets the other requirements, can be a sneak attack. This includes touch spells and ranged touch spells, as well as one- and two- handed weapons. Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus. -- 65 Enchanted Trinkets for D&D 5E. Furthermore, the Gang Up FAQ in NO way counters the litany of examples provided by RumpinRufus that clearly indicates that Flanking is a condition one can have outside of ones own turn order and that being Flanked is a condition that one can have outside of the moment in which one gets melee attacked by a flanking character. I will jump on the "Ambiguous" train. The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. Also for getting sneak attacks greater invisibility is a fantastic spell to have cast on any ranged rogue. Flanking only applies on melee attacks. Invisibility, Stealth, and Sneak Attack. I agree that due to either sloppy writing or poor formatting, it is unclear (had the section talking about positioning been indented one step in from the first line, then the more conservative reading would be clear - but no set/subset of rules is established)- but my RAW reading is that if i have the sneak attack ability, and i am holding a lance in one hand while on a horse (establishing reach/threat for flanking), that i am on the opposite side of an enemy from an ally that also threatens that enemy, i can throw a dart with my other hand and while I would get no bonus to my attack roll for flanking, I would get sneak attack damage. That's been the answer every time this has come up. Nothing says that the attacking character has to threaten to get the flanking bonus. No. You resolve the effects of a spell as part of the casting of that spell, so technically you still do not threaten when you roll the acid splash attack roll (as it is still 'during' the spell). If an attack during this time is a sneak attack, she treats all 1s on the sneak attack damage dice as 2s. If you cannot get the +2, then you must not be flanking. To illustrate specific techniques for macros specifically designed for the Pathfinder RPG system and to demonstrate their use through examples. That FAQ says "flanking specifically refers to melee attacks", because the text of flanking literally does specifically refer to melee attacks, as it says "When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened". Pathfinder has many specific rules, but you’ll also want to keep these general guidelines in mind when playing. There is a fire version of the gloves too, and a Rod of Ice also allows the touch attack. So somewhere along the way I got the rules for sneak attack completely wrong. Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming. These characters can act during a surprise round. Octavia - Ranged DPS/AOE/Skill Monkey Pathfinder: Kingmaker ... As an Arcane Trickster she can deal sneak attack damage with her spells and can be one of the most effective and powerful damage dealers in the game. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. Helpful when dealing with traps and trapped chests. All the feat does is give you a +2 untyped bonus to your roll when those conditions are met. In order to get the Flanking Bonus you must meet its requirements and also be flanking. With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. Let's look at a few things. Spellcasters can choose to Cast Defensively (in fact, in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, it’s automatically assumed you’re casting defensively) to avoid provoking an Attack of Opportunity. 2. But you can't get flanking on ranged attacks. *Pathfinder & Starfinder . Welcome to Guidance, Private Sanctuary’s source for tips and techniques for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, written by Everyman Gamer Alexander Augunas. The only things immune to sneak attack in PF are elementals, incorporeal creatures (if you don't have ghost-touch), oozes and proteans. The question at hand is 'does this say what we think it says', and once that is answered we can move to 'should it be used this way'. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. Of course, neither does that mean everyone is wrong either. Nor can you get the sneak attack bonus if you are not in a melee stance. Therefore someone who is in a flanking position is indeed flanking, regardless of whether or not they're actually choosing to attack each turn. it requires that you attack a foe that is currently being flanked (by two other allies). check out the. 'Being flanked' is not a rule-defined condition. It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in rotten command here! Sneak Attack When your enemy can’t properly defend itself, you take advantage to deal extra damage. The FAQ mentions nothing about SNAP SHOT or other feats that might allow weapons that don't typically threaten, to currently threaten - and therefore the answer does not deal with any of these things. If you have a specific ability that capitalizes off of flanking differently, then you apply the stated benefits as directed. to 100 "You receive a +2 bonus on ranged attacks made against a foe flanked by 1 or more allies with this feat.". Bleeding : Take damage equal to Bleed amount (overlaps) at the beginning of your turn; Cures: DC 15 Heal check Magical healing of HP (stops ability bleeding as well) Blinded-2 AC and lose Dex bonus; Opponents have total concealment; 50% miss chance. Also, throw the rogue a bone. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks. Better to just acknowledge that the wording of flanking is poor and let those feats function.... but that also means acknowledging the wording of sneak attack is poor and accepting it is clearly not intended to be used to make ranged attacks while holding a melee weapon. Plus rogues are extremely fragile. It has some problems because you can't affect many types of creatures, but there are plenty of options to overcome this limitation. I have to lean in the direction of you cannot Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon from flanking RAI, but you CAN RAW. You can instead target a specific grid intersection. RAW: ranged flanking is possible, you can get sneak attack Clearly we don't read into RAW that deeply and let the feats fly on a case-by-base basis. 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Mind to agree identifying sourcebook abbreviations Guide look at `` Table: attack Roll Pathfinder COMMUNITY '' character in! Associated with it has the Final say if you can certainly make the claim that this was oversight, does! This section... ( such as sneak attacks do n't benefit from the upcoming 1 rogue.